America’s political battles are no longer just fought on the hustings and in the television studios; some of the fiercest take place in the blogosphere. Peter Jukes, a seasoned veteran of the Democratic primary wars, recalls the highs and lows of that internecine struggle, and looks to the battle ahead.
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I was part of the Kos / MyDD primary wars (username “juliewolf”), too. Thanks for writing this. It’s a fascinating perspective.
Even though I wasn’t allowed to rec or rate (I recommended the Bob Johnson piece, too), I wrote several diaries in support of Obama that went to the top of the rec list, and one that openly mocked Alegre that went to the top of the rec list and stayed there for the whole day.
It was a truly surreal experience, almost as surreal as the time (long before blogs) that I, on a political discussion e-mail group, switched sides for a week and argued for conservative positions because the conservatives on the group were doing such a piss-poor job of it.
Your article would be substantially improved if you actually painted in some detail the actual political background in which this fracas took place.
As a Clinton supporter and off-an-on participant in the vehemence on MyDD I can’t agree with the representation made of the Obama side. Many or most prevaricated and misrepresented Obama as a “map changer” and as the more liberal candidate throughout, and as the maker of his own success. After his clinching the nomination most Obama supporters readily conceded what they had vehemently denied- that he was the more compromised/centrist, and that he couldn’t actually exceed the generic Democratic/Clinton’s 52% share of the electorate and consistently underperforms it. And that the conservative Democratic establishment- Jimmy Carter most tellingly, and the Texas Democratic Party most crudely- backed him tacitly or overtly throughout.
In retrospect not one serious rationale advanced to support him over Clinton has really held water. In the end it was support for the more moderate candidate- one who will not go beyond managing the remains and fallout of the Bush agenda if elected- and identification with him as a black man or an underappreciated highly educated person that constitutes the rationale. It’s a banality of Hope, a timidity of Change. Obama support on the Internet was a deeply resentful and tribal/egotistical endeavor- in no way “post-racial” or egalitarian, or deeply liberal or progressive, and definitely mendacious- when challenged.
I loved your article (diary?). We had great fun in the primaries! That cartoon where the guy’s wife wants him to come to bed but he says he can’t, he’s too busy typing because ’someone is wrong on the internet’, was so true all those months.
I’m definitely going to visit Motley Moose.
– G
What an interesting time it has been (and continues to be) indeed!
Thanks for capturing this for the wider world, Peter. And thank you, killjoy, for providing a re-enactment for the readers… ;~)
Spot on. Having come through the MyDD primary wars myself, (username: nperry), I can likewise testify that this is an accurate recollection of what occurred, killjoy’s apparent desire to fight the battle all over again notwithstanding. I won’t go over the whole battle again, because it would be bloody boring to just about everyone with or without firsthand knowledge of the feud, but suffice it to say that both sides had those who were interested in the fight far more than the election, (and certainly those who WERE interested in the election, specifically in electing the Republican candidate.) Anyone who can still claim that his or her side was purer and the other side the root of all evil is either massively in need of a long head-clearing walk, or is one of those aforementioned Republicans.
The gripe that held water on MyDD was that Jerome treated the sides differently when it came to moderating his site. A frequent defense was that extremists on both sides were curtailed, but there were multiple instances of mass removals of rec/rate, all of which were clearly targeted at Obama supporters. Bob Johnson’s support of Obama may have been cantankerous and undiplomatic at times, but no more so than Alegre’s support of Clinton.
Alegre, by virtue of a small cadre of followers, most of whom did not participate at MyDD in any way other than to recommend Alegre’s diaries, had de facto frontpager status, with every one of her diaries propelled to the top of the rec list by a plethora of names with nonexistent comment histories. Alegre only rarely responded to comments even to her own diaries, but in one famous incident, responded to an article pointing out that the superdelegate system had inherently favored Clinton four minutes and seventeen seconds after the article was posted with “Is this Snark? Serious question.”
The article was sourced, logical and not particularly inflammatory. Alegre’s response proved quite the opposite. Dozens of people TRed or HRed the comment, every one of whom would lose rec/rate priveleges as a result. Jerome posted to the frontpage accusing people of “piling on” Alegre. Whether her celebrity status on MyDD led to receiving more attention than another commenter might, it was and remains a silly overreaction, one which marked the turning point both for attitudes about rec/rate powers and Alegre’s tenure on MyDD; For the remainder of the year, any post Alegre made could be counted on to receive a dozen or so “Is this snark?” comments in response.
Wow, do you even have a life?
Impressive that most the commentators here are American. Says all I need to say on the website of Britain’s premier political magazine.
Yes Julie - I remember you with please
Yes Killjoy - I remember you
And James - that line is so last millennium. Please join us in the 21st century.
Thanks one and all for your impartial opinions
Nathan
That’s a near pitch perfect summary of my recollections. I wish I could have gone into that level of detail in the piece. The original version (1000 words longer and with no background for UK readers) did go into the ‘Is this Snark?’ debacle too.
You probably know that Jerome Armstrong of MYDD, one of the main protagonists of the piece, has asked me to post up the longer original version.
His response is also surprisingly nice, if editorialised.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/9/26/54852/7442
Well it’s easy enough to recall. The “pile-on” was where I lost my rec/rate. I got them back later, but now as then I remain unimpressed with Jerome’s response. He made a couple corrections, but he’s never really bothered to address the issues that dozens of posters had with his administration during the primaries, and he continues to duck those questions. It’s really discouraged me from actually reading the comment threads, let alone participating in them.
I share some of those feelings. That’s why a bunch of MYDD veterans (Obama and Hillary supporters alike) banded together to form Motley Moose
http://www.motleymoose.com
Would be great to see you there Nathan. Not as mad and manic and impersonal as DKOS, and without the bitter village hostility of MYDD
Sidenote, re Daily Kos– when I first started reading Daily Kos I did find it manic and impersonal, but now I feel a lot more connected to it. I don’t read every one (or even 10%) of the diaries that are posted there, but I stick to diaries involving people and topics that interest me and seem to have found a little niche community. It’s sort of like being on a campus with 20,000 people and accidentally stumbling into the music room with a whole bunch of other people who want to jam with you.
Fear not. The Anti-Christ has arrived.
He waited for Bush to dissolve the US Constitution and turn the presidency into a dictatorship before making his move. His name is Barack Obama.
See the evidence in my Blogs at my space jedimasterroshi
http://www.myspace.com/jedimasterroshi
David - your comment made my morning. Shame such crackpot Left Behind theories aren’t consciously humorous, but they do add to the gaiety of nations
Thank you Peter, for this ethnographic journey into the flame wars and troll invasions of Dkos and MyDD.
You are far milder in your critique than I could ever be. The level of vituperativeness, acrimony and ofttimes open racism and sexism from the liberal-left, egged on by trolls (the agents provocateurs of the blogosphere)sent many diarists and posters running for cover, or offline completely in disgust.
The anonymity of the keyboard often releases demons that one would never suspect, should you chance to meet famous flamers face to face.
Peter,
What a hoot. Sorry I just got around to reading your piece, even though you tipped me to it a couple of months ago.
I have to admit that I loved skewering Jerome for precisely the reason you suggest in your article: his backing of DLC leader Clinton and her “three-state strategy” (Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania) in direct opposition to all he claimed to stand for in “Crashing the Gate.” Jerome is many things, among them a shallow, insecure fellow with, apparently, very few principles.
I have to laugh now at the status of MyDD. It is in a neck-and-neck battle with Larry Johnson’s fringe lunatic site, NoQuarter, in terms of traffic. Jerome’s own monumental insecurity (anyone who called him on his weak, poorly-written arguments was banned) has essentially led to the demise of his site.
It was a self-fulfilling prophecy and would make a proper epilogue to your piece.
Thanks for the laughs. I enjoyed it.
Oh, and Barack Obama can’t win Ohio, Florida or Pennsylvania!
- Bob Johnson